Curse

Noble Knight · Oct 19, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Hi there. I just want to hear what you people have to say about this thing I've noticed recently regarding trading. The term "low-balling" seem to have suddenly become popular in the last 2 weeks. Now I ask you:

Are people really "low-balling" or is the weapon really just not valued as much to others as it is to everyone else or even just losing popularity? Sure some weapons are really rare, I could agree with that, but some people really got to face facts too that some weapons lose their value. The Fiery Dragon Sword was once worth quite a bundle but now nothing compared to a fellblade, brute sword, chaos axe, or even crystalline. So is it time to face facts that some items are really just losing value yet some sellers insist on just trying to rob people of every gold that they can? I am aware that some people who have less noble intentions would purposely bid low even though they actually realize the weapon is rare but that's just sad for them =( The only real rare weapon I think in this game is a crystalline. As you can tell, you don't see spams of WTS Crystalline sword as oppose to fellblades, chaos axes, brutes, or even the sickles. In my eyes, the only thing actually worth more than 2M is perhaps a crystalline sword. This reasoning is just because someone would have to offer their entire "bank account" to buy such a rare piece of item, which makes logical sense.

Well that's all. Hope to hear from you. As this post is against flaming, I would hope you people have the courtesy to refrain from flaming and maintain politeness =). Thank you.

Noble Knight

huh · Oct 19, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

A sickle or a tribal axe is rarer than a crystalline sword I think.
I very sure about the sickle but not about the tribal axe though.

To date, nobody has solid proof of a max damage sickle (though I don't doubt they exist, as some people won't tell others about their find).
The highest on this forum is a 6-24 damage one which is for sale.

And if I lowball, its mostly because I have no idea of the value of the item so I'd just test the grounds.
For example:
I see a 15% > 50% crystalline sword.
I bid 100k on it (which is what some 15% > 50% go for).
The next person comes in and bids 500k on it.
Then thats a clear sign that my bid was rubbish.

Actually, I think lowballing is a good thing as it bumps your thread.
With a disclaimer, you're not liable to sell it if it doesn't reach your reserve.

Jetdoc · Oct 19, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble Knight

I am aware that some people who have less noble intentions would purposely bid low even though they actually realize the weapon is rare but that's just sad for them =(

Why would you say this? To most people, the "market" for an item is what a person is willing to buy it or sell it at. "Lowballing", although I am unsure what that means, simply is a term that a seller uses to say that they feel a price is unacceptible. That has nothing to do with "honorable intentions"...it is simply a perception of the buyer and their desires related to a particular item.

Sol_Vie · Oct 19, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

There was a max one selling on this forum a week ago, I believe. It was blue with an enchanting mod. However the post in question was closed. I swear it was there though.

huh · Oct 19, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Many people believe that to be a fake.
I don't know if it is, but if that person refuses to show it to anyone in-game, it does sound a little fishy.

On the other hand, the one who owns the sickle may really have it, and refuses to show it, just to keep people on their toes.

Noble Knight · Oct 19, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Max damage sickles is probably rare as someone has mentioned none has been proven to exit. But, those massly spammed non max sickles can't possibly be all that rare as if you just go through 1-2 pages of the WTS page you can find at least 3-4 posts of them.

What I mean by "less noble intention is that" for example I wanted to buy a crystalline sword. I know if I were to sell it, I'd value it to be 1million. However, if I were to bid on one, I'd bid 100k, just to try and rip the seller off and for me to possibly resell it at 1M. But if I were to keep it, then it's simply a good deal to have bought it at 100k.

AncientPC · Oct 19, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Sellers reserve the right not to sell, therefore buyers reserve the right to low ball.

Sometimes sellers are looking to get the true value for an item, at other times they're looking to clear inventory.

Dragon Worm · Oct 19, 2005, 08:38 PM // 20:38

I agree completely some gold firey drogon swords could be worth somethin but not 310k,I know that much.

One and Two · Oct 19, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

A lot of the people who actually have the money of 300k finally realized that Fiery Dragon Swords are incredibly ugly

Oh yeah, Crystalline swords are more rare than sickles, but MAX sickles are nonexistant.

Akhilleus · Oct 19, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

lowballing is basically the term for offering substancially (if not ridiculously) less than what you know the item is worth.

generally, if you can go into any given district, and sell the item for the stated amount, in under 5 minutes, its a pretty bad lowball; and traders do not honor lowball bids for the above stated reason. if you KNOW you can get substancially mor ehtan the bid with little or no effort, why sell to them?
they either knew this, and made the bid ebcause they thought they could be cute and get a ridiculously cheap item, or because they didnt know the value at all. in either case a bid should not be placed.

capitalist · Oct 19, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I don't think anyone is lowballing. If the seller is unwilling to give a price, and asks for an offer, he is inviting the buyer to offer what he is willing to pay. I handle my sales like this:

Buyer: "How much?"
Me: "I don't have a price in mind. I will give you one chance to offer, and I will respond with a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer. If your offer is high enough, great. Otherwise, good luck to you on your search"

Akhilleus · Oct 19, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

I don't think anyone is lowballing. If the seller is unwilling to give a price, and asks for an offer, he is inviting the buyer to offer what he is willing to pay. I handle my sales like this:

Buyer: "How much?"
Me: "I don't have a price in mind. I will give you one chance to offer, and I will respond with a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer. If your offer is high enough, great. Otherwise, good luck to you on your search"

i do the following:
in game (when spamming) "offers only, no response=no thanks"
in these forums:
i will announce a closeout time for the item once the reserve or a reasonable price is met.

AncientPC · Oct 19, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

It also comes down to whether both parties involved prefer to haggle or not. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. If I can rip people off either by buying or selling because they don't know the prices I'm going to do it (that does not mean scamming or tricking someone into a trade).

I don't see why we should be obliged in buying and selling at the "correct" price. If that's the case, it's just a matter of who can farm the most and the longest.

For example, the guy who has the most sex isn't always the best looking or the most successful but it's because he asks the ladies out a lot more often than his friends. The same applies to lowballing. 90% of the time your offer will be rejected, but that 10% of the time you will hit jackpot.

Jetdoc · Oct 19, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i i will announce a closeout time for the item once the reserve or a reasonable price is met.

This drives me absolutely mad. If you have a "reserve" or an expectation of a reasonable price..make that your minimum bid.

I think that people feel may feel offended that they get "lowball" offers, but if they don't set a minimum bid that they would be willing to accept, then it is the fault of the SELLER, and not the buyer.

Noble Knight · Oct 20, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

I agree completely with Jetdoc. Some people have starting bids of 1k for fellblades (as in, they actually post that) but of course everyone knows that's not their reserve price. So why waste everyone's time? Just make your min bid your reserve and that way no one wastes any time. If someone wants to pay more than your reserve, you're happy. If not, then lower it. Saves the buyers time too...not having to keep bidding and in the end realize that their offering in the low region where they wont even get the item even after closing auction time.

AncientPC · Oct 20, 2005, 02:31 AM // 02:31

^^ That's a good point. It would stop the lowballing as well if people hate it so much.

Akhilleus · Oct 20, 2005, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientPC

^^ That's a good point. It would stop the lowballing as well if people hate it so much.

or, once again, if you actually intended on buying the item, you could ask what the reserve is, chances are, they will tell you.
but lowballers have no intention of making a real bid, thier only intention is to piss off the seller, and bitch and moan in the off chance they have a winning bid.
dont like reserves?
simple solution:
dont bid on the item

otherwise say "hey, since im not some lowball newb, i'd like to know what you'd actually sell the item for, that way if noone else offers, i actually get the item, and you get not the amount you were dreaming about, but an amount you can tolerate"
but people dont do that, instead they whine saying "omg, you didnt sell me an 8 15>50 fellblade for 200k, just because i'm a lowball newb, and your auction got pushed to page 5 in 30 minutes by the kind of crap i try and sell."

think about this:
on gwg i buy 10X more items than i sell; and yet im in favor of reserves.
hmmm why is that?
maybee because a reserve works on the asumption that you will actually get reasonable offers, wanna make unreasonable offers? expect the seller to perform unreasonable concuct, by refusing to deal with you.
prime example.
recently i won a bid for an item with a 300k bid due to lack of activity in the thread; knowing that if i were selling the item i would NOT sell for 300k, i offered the seller a reasonable price; 500-600k, which they said they would accept. and if you dont have the money to back up a reasonable bid; once again, you shouldnt be bidding.

Noble Knight · Oct 20, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

People have hidden reserves though. I mean, if they really want to just publicize it they would have already done so. They're likely hoping that you would just bid over their reserve so that they could earn more than just their minimum reserve. In most cases (I don't know if maybe it's because they're just really low on cash) they wouldn't tell me the reserve and just ask me to auction on their thread that doesn't even have a deadline...

I agree with that Akhilleus that if buyers don't like the reserve then don't bid, which is why I don't understand why people don't just put their reserves as minimum.

I suppose part of the reason I brought this thread up is that I've seen a few disses/flaming going on towards people who really ARE noobs. I mean, couldn't people just politely say that it doesn't meet their reserve? Perhaps to them, their "low ball offer" is really the value of the item. Hence the title of the thread "The true value of an item" depends on the individual. Overall though, I like how most people here are very trust worthy when it comes time to do the actual trade. I don't see the point of having a "trade rating" as all of my trades have gone perfectly well so far. Hope it stays that way!

AncientPC · Oct 20, 2005, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Please don't group me into others who complain about being ignored, I have no problem with sellers ignoring my lowball offers because that's their right.

Why should low ballers piss off sellers? Sellers should either place a minimum bid (i.e. visible reserve), simply state that the c/o doesn't meet the reserve, or simply ignore the bids.

Often after an auction ends I will PM the seller and ask him for reserve prices on items I was interested in. Then if I like those reserve prices I'll buy the items at that price.

I shouldn't have to play a guessing game with the seller's reserve but that's their option. If they don't want people lowballing them, then simply state the reserve ahead of time. What is so wrong with that?

Akhilleus · Oct 20, 2005, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientPC

Often after an auction ends I will PM the seller and ask him for reserve prices on items I was interested in. Then if I like those reserve prices I'll buy the items at that price.

good for you.
unfortunalty most lowballers dont extend this courtesy, and just bitch when they dont get what they want, like a 2 year old in the candy isle.
and i wasnt speaking to you personally, but to the lowballers who have zero intention of making a decent offer.
if both sides of a trade use common sense and common courtesy in bidding/payment, both sides will walk away satisfied 100% of the time; so when people complain that something just sint right, its usually due to stupidity on one of the party's behalf.
sometimes its the seller, sometimes its the buyer, sometimes its both.